Deborah Lipstadt came to her role as US Ambassador for Surveillance and Anti-Semitism with a wealth of credentials and a lifetime of experience. His authority as a Holocaust historian won him not only awards, but also a historic decision by a UK court against David Irving, a Holocaust denier who sued Lipstadt for defamation after calling him out.
But on October 7, 2023, the world's focus reached a new beat, a response to a war that requires, as Lipstadt put it in a recent interview, “that you hold more than one idea in your head at a time.” Lipstadt spoke to TIME about how her work is changing and how she sees the reaction to the Israel-Hamas War. This interview is edited for length and clarity.
He is the President's special envoy to monitor and combat antisemitism. How is it? Business is booming, and I'm the only one in the Administration who wants a recession [in my field].
Does that mean your job got easier or harder last year? When I took office, my very first speech talked about the need to get people to take antisemitism seriously. “The Jews did it! Where is the problem?”—I have no energy now. I hear people tell their 12-year-old grandson who wears a kippah, “Put on a baseball cap. For safety reasons.” On the Upper East Side of Manhattan.
He grew up when Israel was under control. Every generation has been known first as a resident. I was there during the Six Day War. I was a kid, but, you know, we didn't know what was going to happen. That profile has changed dramatically. At the same time, there is still great hatred among the many organizations surrounding Israel that want to see its demise.
How can one distinguish between criticizing Israel and being sinful? To hold Jews everywhere responsible for what is happening in Israel is anti-Semitism. But if criticism of Israel's policies is anti-Semitism, the hundreds of thousands of Israelis protesting in the streets on Saturday night will be anti-Semitic.
Your academic work focuses on the Holocaust. Does hearing what happened in Gaza qualify as genocide in any way? There is a definition of genocide. You can say that this is a disaster; many people in Gaza do not support Hamas. You can say that the suffering is great and there is no end in sight. But that is not a massacre.
Read more: The New Antisemitism
Between what happened in Israel on October 7 and in Gaza afterward, it can sometimes seem like trauma is in competition. Of course there are competing traumas. I don't get into competitive suffering. Your two fused molars don't make mine feel any better. I don't think it gets you anywhere. We are talking about responding to an attack. 1,200 dead on October 7 is [as a proportion of the population] like 48,000 Americans. If someone said we should remain silent after 9/11, not respond? If someone hits you, you have to hit him back.
Did you just say we? That's right. That's a good point. I was speaking both as a delegate of Joe Biden – who flew there after the attack – and, of course, also as a Jew.
Do you think the Jewish people as a whole feel that their destiny is the same as that of Israel? I think some Jews do. Some Jews feel that if anything happened to Israel they would not be safe in the world. There are many Jews who feel that way.
Does it work the other way around? If Israel is sanctioned – a big name within Israel – are the Jews in great danger? I think so. I think in many places, yes. And we have to think about it. Do you want to talk about genocide? Talk about the massacre of the Uighur people.
That doesn't happen on camera, does it? The Chinese have confirmed that. But if someone can find a group of Chinese people and beat them [in retaliation]we would be surprised.
Rachel Weisz played for you Deniala film about your trial for Holocaust denial. Are you still in touch? We are sending an email. After I was nominated, he told the producers that they should call him his ambassador. He took the part really seriously. His father escaped from Hungary, and his mother was born in Vienna to a Jewish father, and they had to leave. So he came to this personally.
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